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  • Pmaciel - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Good for shareholders. As I am not a shareholder, just a long time DYI buyer and supporter: boring and disappointed.
  • drexnx - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I'm both, and also someone who bought a Raven Ridge APU boxed at retail for an HTPC build - I really wanted to see these with a retail release.
  • Smell This - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link


    The desktop Ryzen 4000G's will arrive soon enough, and LOL, it has been all of a year.

    What is missed is that the Vega clock speed from last summer's Ryzen 5 3400G / Ryzen 3 3200G has now grown from 1,400MHz peak to 2,100MHz.

    AND . . . . I'm also thinkin' an OC'd version with DDR4 at 4k+ would set entry level discreet on its arse.
  • Samus - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    I just don't think there is demand. Intel and AMD seem to have silently pushed back roadmaps. Even Apple is rumored to delay the iPhone launch from its typical early september slot.

    Why make products that won't sell?
  • brucethemoose - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I am, and it is indeed up at today's open, but AMD's valuation is insane. Investors haven't just priced in Renoir; They've priced in an AMD holocube.
  • eek2121 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I mean, the direction AMD is headed in is pretty apparent, and that is UP.

    They are launching multiple new product lines in the next 2-3 months. GPUs, CPUs, and APUs. If they continue execution they will be 10 times the size they are now within a few years time.
  • Farfolomew - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Not if Apple and Arm has anything to say about it. That’s AMD’s biggest threat I think, not Intel. Intel and AMD need to team up to save x86, or transition together to Arm. Qualcomm could potentially benefit immensely from Apple’s switch.
  • brucethemoose - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Qualcomm enjoys a nice psuedo-monopoly in the US Android market.

    I don't think they want more competitors doubling down on ARM.
  • Nicon0s - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Apple only represents a tiny piece of the consumer PC marker so how can they be a threat to AMD?
    AMD will move more desktop level chips in the next 2 years with the help of consoles alone.
    Apple is a small fish in the PC game.

    Also on the server/ professional side of things costumers are interested in players that have showed they can deliver and execute a product road-map and AMD has showed just that. This is really the reason why ARM players aren't a threat to AMD or even Intel.
  • eek2121 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    People don’t realize that AMD is a far larger customer of TSMC than Apple is.
  • mdriftmeyer - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    That statement is just wrong. TSMC annually has around a $20 billion contract with Apple.
  • eek2121 - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    There is nothing incorrect about my statement. Do the math.
  • TimSyd - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Lol, no where near US$20billion from Apple alone. TSMC total revenue is only US$35b.
    Apple makes approx 50 million iPhones per year and about 10 million iPads. The raw SoC cost is estimated at no more than $20 (estimated for a 10mmx10mm die on 7nm wafers). Even at the upper end that's a total of US$1.2b.

    AMD ships north of 50 million Ryzen/Epyc per year each of which is one or more chiplets (conservatively averaged as 1.5 chiplets) each chiplet a bit smaller than Apple's SoC, so about $15 each plus more than 20 million GPUs, a much bigger die costing more like $50. So AMD does US$1.7b or more with TSMC
  • Nicon0s - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Yeah AMD is positioned to become a larger costumer for TSMC than Apple, Apple just pays them more to use their nodes first.
    AMD will be occupying most of TSMC's 7nm capacity for the remaining of the 2020.
  • Azix - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    How did you arrive at that conclusion? Do you think AMD even has the funds for that?
  • Samus - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    True, when talking about wafers. Apple obviously gets more SoC's and packages but that's because they're less than half size.
  • Samus - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Meant to add the reason I replied. lol.

    This could change when Apple shifts to ARM CPU's for their Mac's. Those will be monolithic dies and likely trump AMD (and Intel for that matter) consumer CPU die sizes because they will either be VERY large cores, or dozens of cores, and possibly an external cache, on a single package.
  • linuxgeex - Friday, July 31, 2020 - link

    https://www.techspot.com/news/83400-amd-set-become...

    BZZT.
  • linuxgeex - Friday, July 31, 2020 - link

    LOL... well remind yourself that 1 year ago nobody actually considered AMD a "threat" to Intel. At that point we were all just hoping AMD kept Intel honest about releasing improvements as they came instead of hoarding and extorting from a monopoly position.

    Apple has the fastest ARM implementation. ARM is the threat to x86. So Apple is *the* threat to Intel and AMD.
  • mdriftmeyer - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Apple isn't competing with AMD. They are competing with keeping existing Apple customers and hoping some iOS fans want to buy ARM based Macs custom designed but in no way competing with AMD. Apple is banking on 3rd party OEMs to be willing to double their developer investment costs to develop on OS X exclusively with VM support for ARM based Linux on one hand, and predominantly Windows whose user base dwarfs Apple outside of the iOS world.
  • Farfolomew - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    I'm referring more of the impending doom of x86 as a whole. Look at how Arm and the sandbox-OS world dominated the smartphone market since 2007. That model is so incredibly more user-friendly than the x86 Windows world.

    I'm honestly shocked the Windows world has lasted this long. The consumer computer space is ripe for a big paradigm shift towards user simplicity, even if power users [most of] us don't like it
  • wumpus - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link

    Changing platforms is a huge pain. The real issue is "that one app" you can't live without (you can, but you'd buy a whole system to run that app anyway). The real problem for ARM is that "that one app" is different for everybody, and emulation isn't always good enough.

    I'd have thought that Chromebook would be enough to move people to ARM. If it wasn't, I'd be surprised if an ARMMac would do it, although it might be enough to get developers developing on ARM (which might be enough of a push to overthrow x86).

    I think the real question, is why are game consoles still on x86? I suspect that a "real computer" will still have its place (although don't expect everyone else to keep subsidizing us, although AMD might be able to survive on such margins and keep their traditional pricing).
  • JasonMZW20 - Monday, August 3, 2020 - link

    Counterpoint: AMD holds a custom ARM license and can create their own ARM-based processors and SoCs if the gap is significantly closed in HPC (server/datacenter/AI), and can offer both ARM and x86, as was the original plan.

    I don't see AMD ever offering ARM for consumer/retail products (right now), but you never know.
  • brucethemoose - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Going up is one thing. Thats why I bought them at... 8, I think?

    But this is an established company trading at a P/E of 135. Thats more like "AMD is going to monopolize the market and make 20x what they make currently, in a few years."

    This is partially a reflection of my frustration with the entire US stock market, which, as Warren Buffet recently said, is in "la la land".
  • lightningz71 - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    The stock market is trapped in an artificial environment that exerts constant upwards pressure on its overall valuation. Due to the simply massive amounts of money that are poured into it by funds that are constantly being pumped full of additional 401k/IRA/etc money, and managers that are judged by only their most recent quarter’s performance, anything that shows even the slightest chance of riding gets an avalanche of money thrown at it.

    It is almost completely irrational in how it behaves.
  • bananaforscale - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    ^ This.
  • jospoortvliet - Sunday, August 2, 2020 - link

    Yup. The quantitative easing (“printing money”) causes inflation in the market where that money ends up. 50 years ago, that money would have end up with normal folks who would buy fridges and houses, so their prices would go up and we would have inflation. But our economy is so skewed towards the 1% that almost all the money printed just makes the rich, richer. And they don’t spend it, they invest it - in the stock market. Which this is now seeing inflation.

    The smarter move would be to massively increase tax on the rich, globally, and transfer that wealth to people who spend it - so it benefits the economy instead of just creating crazy numbers on the stock market. Alternatively instead of giving the money to the rich as the govt now does, hand it over to people who spend it - directly. The 600 dollars/week has had more positive effect on the economy as all other money thrown at the economy in the last decade combined...
  • vanilla_gorilla - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I wouldn't call this boring! I've been waiting for new AMD APU to upgrade my tiny mini-itx NAS. It's currently using a >85w 4c/8t part from intel and I would love to upgrade it.
  • Pmaciel - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    You have a perfectly legitimate use for these APUs — yet can't buy them.
  • eek2121 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I'd love to get my hand on the 35W part for a Mini ITX multipurpose PC (media, light gaming, etc.)

    I imagine they are just delaying the launch due to supply issues. TSMC can only produce so many parts.
  • zamroni - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    $150 gtx 1650 is more powerful than those integrated GPUs
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    You'd hope so, but if you can get even 50% of its performance for ~$200 *with a high-end CPU included* then you're not doing too badly, really.
  • Azix - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Announcing things is always good for shareholders since all they really care about is a company maintaining hype. Value is no longer a consideration.

    AMD will hit a supply wall and have limited launches for some time to come. You can't take over the cpu business without your own fabs or at least multiple sources of chips. They announce products but can't really supply them that widely. They have to be juggling. AMD investors are at a point where the hype tells them AMD CAN take over the industry.

    These apus are likely not using chiplets, which means they lose the advantages that provided. Yield, cost and whatever else
  • MikeSmith007 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    :(...AMD should stop trying to segment the market and simply "Let the chips fall where they may". Their best Pro line CPUs for mediocre motherboards found in Dell and HP? Why, what's the point? The reason why consumers weren't buying their APUs before because they were weak, and under powered, built on an outdated process node.
  • extide - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    It's because they are probably selling so many of these that they are prioritising them to the OEM partners right now. People gotta realize that the entire leading-edge fab capacity of TSMC is like 1/5th of what intel has in terms of wafer starts per month. AMD only has like 20-25% of TSMC's capacity, so when Intel releases new stuff they can much more easily flood the market. Give AMD some time here, they are doing the best they can.
  • gescom - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    "People gotta realize that the entire leading-edge fab capacity of TSMC is like 1/5th of what intel has in terms of wafer starts per month"

    TSMC
    2.5 million wafers per month

    INTEL
    0.82 million wafers per month
  • extide - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Leading edge. TSMC has about 110-140K wafers per month on their 7nm process. Intel has 5-6 14nm fabs that each do ~100K wafers per month. (Of course their 10nm is a disaster, but the bulk of their manufacturing and sales is still 14nm parts) TSMC has many older processes till in use, including ones that run 200mm wafers that make up a lot of the sheer volume there.

    Ref for TSMC capacity: https://www.techspot.com/news/83400-amd-set-become...
  • Brane2 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    But the TSMC is beginning with 5 nm. Intel can't still make it at 7nm ( no matter metric-imperial conversions)
  • extide - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Right, I am just talking about the manufacturing capacity of the products they are selling right now.
  • Nicon0s - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    "Leading edge"? and how is 14nm leading edge in 2020?
    TSM's 7nm is obviously at least 1 full generation ahead than Intel's 14nm.
  • mdriftmeyer - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    TSMC is now the largest fab in the world.
  • Farfolomew - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I bet AMD wished they owned their own Fab right about now .... lol
  • Brane2 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    And have it sink them ?
    They had it and it didn't work well. They had to be on leading-edge on too many fronts.
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    The fabs they previously owned are now GloFo, which are still on "12nm". I think they're probably quite happy about their decision to spin off that albatross.
  • Nicon0s - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    I doubt it.
  • Irata - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    They are counting on increasing OEM sales for back to school, particularly due to the current pandemic. So OEM have priority.
  • timecop1818 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    > built on an outdated process node

    I guarantee you, not a single consumer gives a fuck about process node-schmode. What they do care about is getting a stable working platform that allows them to get work done without worrying about their tools. And Intel delivers such experience, while AMD does not.
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    If you're going to bang on about Intel's superiority on a cherry-picked metric, maybe at least cherry-pick one where they're noticeably superior?
  • Wrong_again - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    "All the APUs support DDR4-3200, and have eight PCIe 3.0 lanes."
    I don't know what's more upsetting, 8 lanes, or the fact that they're Gen 3 lanes. Surely this can't be right. There are AMD laptops with discrete graphics and NVMe support.
  • PeachNCream - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    NVMe is supported over PCIe 3.0
  • goatfajitas - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    These are OEM parts for companies like Dell and Lenovo to build small systems and all in ones with. Not the top end parts. For example this will be what you get when you buy a Lenovo Tiny Desktop https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops-and-all-in-o...
  • limitedaccess - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    It's actually 16 lanes. It's just split as x8 x4 x4. So only x8 is available as the largest maximum connection, which typically goes to graphics.

    Desktop non APU Ryzen's are 24 lanes split at x16, x4 x4. Typically it's split to graphics, nvme, and chipset.

    I'm guessing these will typically be x8 graphics (or top slot), x4 nvme, x4 chipset.
  • oleyska - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    it has more pci-e lanes, Renoir has 24 lanes or so.
    most laptop designs use 18 pci-e lanes
    2 M2 slots, M2 Wifi, Lan + gpu.
    That is atleast the configuration my 4800H is configured with, 18 pci-e lanes in use which is more than raven ridge.
  • brucethemoose - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Those extra lanes come from the chipset.
  • Nioktefe - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    As far as I know there's no chipset on mobile
  • jeremyshaw - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Are you sure one of your M.2 slots isn't a 2 lane slot? 16 total lanes sounds more likely, since it reflects the die shot analysis a bit better.
  • DanNeely - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    They're rebadged laptop parts not intended to be used with a discrete GPU. 8 lanes breaks out as 1 x4 for the SSD, and 4 x1 for everything else (wifi, audio, etc, etc).

    They're PCIe3 only to keep idle power down (and battery life up). Unless future process improvements reduce power significantly I suspect mainstream laptops will stay on 3.0 for a while.
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    The laptop parts are, in fact, designed to be used with a GPU in many use cases - that's the whole point of them having SmartShift technology. I think others already covered the fact that they have more than 8 lanes in total - 8 is just the largest single cluster.
  • Drkrieger01 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    If you're wanting more than 8 lanes, and faster than PCIe 3.0, they'll expect you'll want the horsepower that comes with the full desktop CPU's (non APU sku's). There's little reason to pair a high end dedicated GPU with the iGPU on these, and 8x PCIe 3.0 is more than enough for even the most demanding gaming titles. If you're doing 'Prosumer' production, you wouldn't be buying an APU ;)
  • Irata - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Check Anandtech's "AMD Details Renoir" article. It says the following regarding PCIe 3 lanes:

    "Each chip has sixteen PCIe 3.0 lanes, split such that x8 is available for a graphics card, and two x4 links for storage. There are separate PCIe lanes for other modules such as Wi-Fi 6 or mobile network access (4G/5G)."

    The odd thing is that this indicates that there are more than 16 lanes since this gives you
    8 - dGPU
    2x4 = 8 - storage

    So we're already at 16 lanes, but AT say (and the diagram shows this) "There are separate PCIe lanes for other modules".
  • PeachNCream - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    35w TDP desktop APUs? Good to see them coming out and since any old business PC can be made into a home entertainment box after EOL resale, I would expect to find some nice little Optiplex-whatevers on the gray market in a few years with these chips in them.
  • Pimentalo - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I already own a Ryzen 5 3400GE (Lenovo M75q) - that's a terrific PC for that size.
    But I think it will be outperformed by the Ryzen 3 4300GE.
  • Hifihedgehog - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Apparently, they might be coming to retail on August 8th:

    https://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1266821.h...
  • hnlog - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Benchmarks appeared (from Japanese parts shop)
    https://www.pc-koubou.jp/magazine/41069
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Looks like they perform around about where you'd expect them to. Good stuff!
  • yeeeeman - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    AMD is following the money, just like any other company. So this is very much expected.
  • AntonErtl - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Shouldn't it be "Ryzen Pro 4750G" (not 4700G)?

    So AMD still has so much demand compared to their orders that they don't have enough APUs for retail. Hopefully this will change soon.
  • derstef - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Oh sad, i had hope for >8 PCIe lanes, no matter if 4.0 or 3.0, for using one of these APUs in my home server which currently got an aging R7 1700 and a cheap discrete GPU just cause you need one. But using only one PCIe slot is a no-go when there is already an SATA HBA and 10G NIC installed.
  • schujj07 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    It is only 8 lanes to the GPU. For almost all GPUs that is plenty. There is another 4 lanes to the chipset and 4 lanes directly to NVMe storage.
  • G3ist - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    This must be some sort of late april fools joke right ? By their own admission 80% landed in prebuilt, while 20% yes... custom builds, this means that you are already down 20% of your projected market, while the likes of HP, and DELL might cover that shortfall in volumes, they will be paying at far lower than market due to discounting. Really AMD this is the type of trash Intel does with artificial imposed barriers. Guess I'll be returning my B550 ITX as the 2 display ports have no meaning now...
  • psyclist80 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Just wait a couple of weeks...people are funny. I WANT IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!
  • TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    It's all we have left now.
  • Qasar - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    did you read the whole article ? seems other Zen2 apu's are still on their way :
    " AMD says that they are planning a consumer-grade release of APUs ‘soon’. It was stated in our briefing call that there will be a launch of a future Zen2 APU for the consumer market compatible with 500-series motherboards. The company specifically did not say 400-series, but did clarify that the 4000G series announced today was for 400 and 500 series. "
  • Hul8 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    It's probably that AMD is not ready to ship the processors or systems yet, but the OEM partners need to have the products "launched" in order to start promoting them. Otherwise they'd be breaking AMD NDA.

    It's possible the complete OEM systems and the DYI parts will become available around the same timeframe.
  • Hul8 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Also, it's nice from AMD to let their OEM partners get all the buzz from the new parts for a while. Until the DYI release date is announced, that is.
  • desii - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Disappointing. I was thinking of building a non-gaming workstation with on of these APUs, but fewer lanes and no PCIe 4 it's a significantly gimped product.
  • Irata - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I am curious:

    What exactly made you expect that these APU would physically differ from the already released Ryzen 4000 laptop APU ?
  • Sub31 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    In the past AMD packaged APUs into a drop-in product. It's not too crazy to expect that Renoir would follow precedent.
  • Irata - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    But was there any difference technically between a 3000 series notebook and desktop APU ?
    Both had the same number of PCIe lanes and interface.

    Also, the new Ryzen 4000 desktop APU are socket AM4. The CPU core itself is the same.
  • Sub31 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Sorry, I read your question wrong. Thought you said "wouldn't" rather than "would"
  • Retycint - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Why would PCIe 4 matter on an APU? Presumably these are used for HTPCs or non-gaming PCs who need a display output, so I fail to see the relevance.
  • psyclist80 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Exactly...some folks just want something to whine about. Awesome APU, looking forward to getting one eventually to upgrade my 2200G in my HTPC
  • desii - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    >Why would PCIe 4 matter on an APU?
    Same reason it would matter anywhere. These are desktop chips; expandability and future proofing are expected.
    There are many different needs for a computer. I don't want a dedicated graphics card, but that doesn't mean I want a slower system in other areas.

    But I'm more concerned about it having just 8 lanes. Although that doesn't sound right, it's probably not 8 lanes total across all slots and NVMe ports. I'll wait to see more details.
  • Deicidium369 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    The term "future proofing" when talking about computers cracks me up
  • PeachNCream - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    For once, I agree with you.
  • Hul8 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    All Ryzen APUs so far have come with total 16 PCIe 3 lanes off the CPU. I don't know why you expected different from this generation.

    They have:
    - x8 for the GPU (usable only as x8/x0 on X370/X470/X570, the second slot doesn't get any connectivity)
    - x4 for NVMe
    - x4 for chipset.
    Athlons have fewer still: 10 lanes in x4 + x2 + x4.

    Since the focus of the APUs is in mobile and cost-down, it doesn't make sense to include extra PCIe lanes, or PCIe 4 that couldn't be utilized on mobile anyways due to power constraints.

    Not only would the lanes go unused in the majority of systems, overbuilding the controllers would increase die area and lead to more expensive products for no gain.

    Overbuilt expensive systems based on APUs (with expensive GPUs, NVMe storage and controller cards) are a tiny niche of a niche.
  • Hul8 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    And the chipset x4 can be used for anything at the OEMs discretion, like another NVMe, if there is no chipset.
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    If you're disappointed, you really weren't following any of what's been going on since Renoir launched.

    What possible purpose could you have for so many PCIe4 lanes on a workstation that wouldn't justify buying a Ryzen 3000 and a cheap discrete GPU instead? :E
  • neogodless - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    > has the Ryzen 3 CPU family

    This wording is a little ambiguous. I'm sure you mean the Ryzen 3000-series desktop CPUs, but since there are a wide range of "Ryzen 3" CPUs, that's not clear in this sentence.
  • Hul8 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I'd argue that isn't ambiguous - it's flat out erroneous.
  • vFunct - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    This would be great for small servers, especially if they include ECC.
  • vFunct - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    AMD could make their own versions of NUC with these.
  • TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    AMD could do a lot of things, like sell cards on their website with proper coolers or partner with MSI or clevo to make a proper APU based laptop.

    But they wont. This type of commercial outreach is an achilles heel for AMD, and why the Intel designs are often of far higher quality. Intels spends a TON on getting good designs polished.
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    You can't do everything well when you're pulling in 1/25th the revenue of your main competitor.

    There are 3rd parties making AMD NUC equivalents already, though - and I suspect we'll see some with Renoir in due course.
  • qlum - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    This may just tie in with a delay of zen 3.
    AMD has released the 3000G series together with the regular zen 2 release.
    If they want to do the same with zen3 on the consumer side they probably cannot do it now.
    However, OEM's will still want their parts ready, so I am guessing they went OEM only for now.

    But that is just my best guess. I highly doubt that these cpus will never be released directly to consumers I just expect it to be at the same time as Zen 3.
  • mdriftmeyer - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    There is no delay. Fall isn't here yet.
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Why are random accounts still spamming the Zen 3 delay FUD?
  • Valantar - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Argh, this pisses me off so bad. I've been waiting for these chips since CES, and now they're (for the time being) OEM only. I get that given the increased demand for PCs due to Covid they need to prioritize OEMs, and I get that those are 80% of the APU market, but those last 20% have been chomping at the bit for better APUs for a year, and with Zen2 we finally have the promise of real high performance APUs on the horizon. So please AMD, get these into retail ASAP.
  • RMSe17 - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I think these model numbers are super confusing. There are Ryzen 3xxx parts that are built on Zen 2 and Zen 1+. Now we have Ryzen 4xxx parts on Zen 2. I am assuming they will also keep Ryzen 4xxx numbers for the upcoming Zen 3 architecture...
  • Farfolomew - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Agreed, I very much dislike the staggering of product generations. It all started with Zen+ and AMD marketing then releasing, what appeared like, a whole new generation with Ryzen 2000 series.

    Very frustrating. I wish Zen 3 desktop/APU and mobile would all be Ryzen 5000 series, but they won’t :(
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    They almost certainly will. I'm not fond of it, either, but it's most likely led by the requirements of OEMs. The first Zen APUs came quite late in the Zen product cycle, so they tied the marketing to Zen+ and the 2000 series... and now we're left with this.
  • danjw - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Yes, I wanted a 4700G for my file sever. Oh, well, I guess I will have to look at Intel's offerings instead, if I can find a decent on of those anywhere. AMD, you were supposed to be the enthusiast friendly one.
  • takeship - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    While this might be a good money move for AMD, the marketing is terrible. With respect to to B550, AMD now has a "budget" board with no access to an APU, and no clear plans to correct this. The value proposition at the low end vs Intel is...not good. I say this as an AMD shareholder who just built two high end Ryzen systems to replace older hardware. But perhaps the home built SFF market is so exceedingly vs. OEM that it can be ignored...
  • mdriftmeyer - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    OEMs know how to market their own laptops. AMD is providing them with what they want.
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    It's not being ignored, so much as de-prioritized. It sucks, really, but it's this or they cut chunks out of their most reliable market, lose profits and hamper their own future performance. 🤷‍♂️
  • eastcoast_pete - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Isn't it nice of AMD to help Intel out here? Not making Renoir APUs available to us (DIY and small builders) helps Team Blue out. Now Intel isn't the only player unable to ship desirable products to their customers. Yes, OEMs are really important, but so is your enthusiast community that stood by you when times were tough. And, right now, Intel is down, but far from out. If Intel can get Tiger Lake and Alder Lake out in quantity and with Xe graphics, some of us may rethink what's in our HTPC and related builds if AMD keeps this up!
  • WaWaThreeFIVbroS - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Nah, the DIY market is smaller than you think
  • mdriftmeyer - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Correct. They're around 6% of the market or less.
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    This kind of entitled response really bugs me - "How dare you, a multi-million-dollar business, not prioritise my personal needs!" We're not their target market with this launch - it sucks, we'll live.

    They're certainly not "helping Intel out" here, though, because Intel don't have a comparable product out. Good luck getting Tiger Lake in a platform that you can use for an HTPC build.

    Just buy the product that works best for your requirements at the time and spare us the disingenuous griping, eh?
  • clsmithj - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    Will this APU be the last B350/X370 supported AM4 CPU since it is ZEN2 based after all?

    I just ordered up a rare mATX B350 board that I will sit aside to just for this CPU down the road.
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    As best I can tell, that's highly likely to depend on the specific board. AMD don't seem to be guaranteeing support on anything but B5XX, but we've seen a bunch of their CPUs supported "unofficially" on other boards before. I'd be surprised if this were an exception, but I certainly wouldn't bank on it being supported either.
  • desii - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    FWIW, the Pro lineup is showing up in some stores in Europe.
  • danjw - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I guess the thing that really rubs me the wrong way here, is that they should have let people know earlier that these were intended as only OEM parts. They have been stringing people along for over 6 months, since CES.
  • Qasar - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    these apus for the OEMs, yes. other APUs for the consumer market, are forth coming, says so right in the article.
  • Spunjji - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    The only launched the mobile parts at CES:
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/15324/amd-ryzen-400...

    News about the OEM limitation on the desktop APUs has been circulating for a while now:
    https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-renoir-desktop-a...

    I don't think they ever intended them only for OEMs - they're just facing up to market realities.

    You don't get endless crying about stuff that was never promised on Intel articles. I wonder why...
  • hubick - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    I stopped reading at OEM only. OEM's are horrible. Get your local computer store to build you a system, so they can fix it in days instead of months.
  • kourosh daryaei - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    garaunty cpu get back and replace might have been mind in oem mode or cannot buy since new is corrected old cpu ryzen 7 or ryzen 5 or ryzen 3 are cpu geo-processing field optimization by per process freqency transistor transaction factor from endless to 1 to 3/2 or 5/3 or attunement technich like ryzen 4000 new design
  • zamroni - Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - link

    It's reasonable to make them oem only.
    Most consumer desktop users put gpu in their system as $150 gtx 1650 is more powerful than any integrated gpu.
  • supdawgwtfd - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Citation needed lol.

    "most" Consumer desktop users do NOT have a discrete GPU at all!

    You are delusion if you think the majority do.
  • Gigaplex - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link

    I think they meant non-OEM systems, or "consumer built".
  • GeoffreyA - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Exciting stuff. As a happy 2200G user, I've got something nice to dream of now :) Also glad all the models are coming with SMT, as far as I can see.
  • dan_ger - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    That is a huge jump in frequency, you can almost double the clock speed on an overclock. I have not seen frequency jumps like that for a long time, impressive.
  • dan_ger - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    I don't agree with your AMD valuation. Covid will be neutral to beneficial to AMD. You are right that small business is getting hurt and as a result tech and online conglomerates are benefiting. More remote operations, telecommuting, cloud, data center etc. Furthermore AMD has a clear path in CPU dominance to early 2022 with Zen 3 and this assumes that Intel gets their 7nm and urarch right. If Intel falters, AMD's dominance could persist longer. In either event, AMD is not standing still. They will have 5nm design coming to meet Intel at 7nm. Additionally, they have a monopoly on consoles AND Big Navi looks like it will compete with NVDA at the high end. I am expecting more market share gains in discreet for AMD. Look what happened to NVDA stock when it went from 6B to 11B. It seems AMD is on a similar trajectory. I certainly would not sell AMD now.
  • TimSyd - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link

    Kinda disappointed by Ian's trolling headline.
    He knows full well that DIY versions us regular folk *can* buy are on their way. Plenty of Ian's peers & industry colleagues (Charlie at SemiAcccurate etc) have posted about this & AMD themselves have said the 4000 series APU's for DIY are coming soon. So the clickbait headline is unwelcome, from Anandtech & Ian especially (of course elsewhere on Reddit or Youtube & in those crazy forums, it's de-rigeur)

    Nothing wrong with AMD making some money by prioritizing Si to customers & markets that are worth the most, especially when consoles must be eating a lot of their wafer allocation in readiness for the upcoming release.
    Lisa Su hasn't become *the* highest paid Si valley CEO by setting her priorities just from what the enthusiasts & fanboys want.
  • paulocoghi - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link

    Charlie, from SemiAccurate, is informing that we may see Ryzen 4000 Desktop APUs later in August. I hope he is right.
  • andrellyra - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link

    wouldn't the mobile version of the APU have just 8 PCIe lanes?
  • Spunjji - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link

    Nope - 8 for a GPU, 4 for NVMe and another 4 for chipset / NVMe. I think there may also be a couple of lanes for WiFi/etc. on top of that.
  • Iketh - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link

    article states maybe a 105w zen 2 renoir.... what on earth for??? clearly the current silicon is limited to ~4.2ghz based on all turbo frequencies, so more power is yielding little to know gains
  • mr_tawan - Friday, August 7, 2020 - link

    I saw these processors listed in some retailer here, although with no price. There are some reviews already as well.

    My guess is some of these retailers act as an OEM but sells parts individually.

    Or may be because I'm not in the US, but in some of the third world country where the APU are in higher demands :).
  • SydneyBlue120d - Sunday, November 1, 2020 - link

    After more than 3 months from the launch, there are zero desktop systems available using them in Italy. Do they really exist?

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