"The secret source of the processor is in the co-processors". The secret sauce maybe? Finally, I was really wondering where all the effort went and if that place was down the drain. So it does exist.
I don't think it ever was a realistic option. You loose efficiency in ARM and x86 mode this way, and efficiency is critical for the markets AMD is targeting.
That was project Skybridge, where the same socket would fit an ARM or an x86 CPU. That was shelved, turns out no-one wants it commercially. Technically you could argue that any APU with TrustZone has an ARM core in it... :D
@Ian: "Technically you could argue that any APU with TrustZone has an ARM core in it... :D"
ARM IP for sure, but does it actually require an ARM core to run? I was not aware of this. I'll have to check it out. I'd imagine an M-series core would be used to keep things small.
Require? In what sense. it requires it in the sense that ARM won't let you put TrustZone in a device without at least one ARM core in it. So therefore yes it is required at least from a legal aspect.
Seattle is merely an intro for the ARM into the server business. It will be next gen to introduce a wider platform scope. Its still part of there core business unit in search for "other" platforms not directly competing with the default competitors.
Not directly competing with "default competitors"? Don't think this is the case. Various Atoms and Xeons (Xeon-D) are already targeting a lot of that space.
That little Huskyboard is interesting. That could handle 3 SATA drives and work as a micro server. And since they make ECC SODIMMs and the A1100 should handle ECC RAM... You could fit several of those into a single 1U rack quite easily and have some pretty power-efficient performance.
Yeah, that HuskyBoard looks awesome. Apparently you can't buy one yet, or at least I looked around for a while for a place to buy one but couldn't find anywhere. I definitely want one to play with, unless its just ridiculously expensive.
I'd love to get a feel for the pricing on these. Seems like this chip could make a great little home built file server for the demanding enthusiast. Eight SATA ought to suffice for most. 10G ethernet is more than most home networks are capable of. Plenty of capacity for relatively high speed RAM makes for a nice sized ARC cache. Finally, the eight lightweight cores can be used for additional services (Domain, DLNA, etc) with no perceptible loss of performance from the file server proper.
@Ian: "... , but I wonder how many resources AMD is still putting into this project rather than their core business units."
I thought the whole reason this was late was that they retasked these engineers to work Zen. The engineers needed to work on this presumably finished their work on Zen and returned to complete this (different set of expertise working Zen now). If they can keep an alternating cadence with these two lines, I don't see any reason they can't work both without getting in each other's way. Good way to keep your engineers gainfully employed between designs as well.
Oh, now that I can see images I see that they are 28nm parts... we are still a step back to be just a single step back from the most advanced PP... it is clear that this piece of silicon cannot compete with anything.
These boards and systems are for 'development' purposes thus not ready for real world retail products yet. Video of those boards and systems here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k1EJaPRXsM
To imagine what the speed and price need to be to compete, compare with Xeon D--full-size (non-Atom) cores but cheap and lowish clocks, also with integrated 10gbE. The cheapest is 4C @ 2.4GHz, $200. By the time an A1100 or whatever ships Intel might've inched forward a bit more.
At this point I imagine if ARM servers get much uptake it might be a giant existing maker like Qcom or Samsung deciding to throw some very-low-margin CPUs out there, or it's initiated on the purchaser side, i.e., development's effectively funded by one of the handful of companies with huge datacenters in hopes of saving on tasks that aren't CPU-bound today. But, on the flipside, those big purchasers are also good at optimizing use of the boxes they have and are well positioned to get good deals from Intel; they might not be that motivated to try and make ARM work.
Also imagine, somewhat more handwavily, that the fast ARM chips may still not have crossed over into the zone of "good enough" single-threaded performance for servers yet. Many apps are latency sensitive and built in a way that isn't totally light on the CPU. Like, you may want to run a Java or RubyPythonWhatever Web app on it and want it to feel reasonably snappy to the user. That needn't mean matching Intel's big cores for single-threaded speed, but it does mean finding the magical fast-enough line and getting across it.
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close - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
"The secret source of the processor is in the co-processors". The secret sauce maybe?Finally, I was really wondering where all the effort went and if that place was down the drain. So it does exist.
nathanddrews - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
Neato! I thought they were building some sort of hybrid ARM/x86 CPU, not just a pure ARM CPU, is that still a thing?MrSpadge - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
I don't think it ever was a realistic option. You loose efficiency in ARM and x86 mode this way, and efficiency is critical for the markets AMD is targeting.Ian Cutress - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
That was project Skybridge, where the same socket would fit an ARM or an x86 CPU. That was shelved, turns out no-one wants it commercially. Technically you could argue that any APU with TrustZone has an ARM core in it... :DBurntMyBacon - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
@Ian: "Technically you could argue that any APU with TrustZone has an ARM core in it... :D"ARM IP for sure, but does it actually require an ARM core to run? I was not aware of this. I'll have to check it out. I'd imagine an M-series core would be used to keep things small.
hpglow - Sunday, November 29, 2015 - link
Require? In what sense. it requires it in the sense that ARM won't let you put TrustZone in a device without at least one ARM core in it. So therefore yes it is required at least from a legal aspect.duploxxx - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
Seattle is merely an intro for the ARM into the server business. It will be next gen to introduce a wider platform scope. Its still part of there core business unit in search for "other" platforms not directly competing with the default competitors.but yes indeed it is a few Q late.
Alexvrb - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
Gotta start somewhere. The real interesting AMD custom ARM core won't be out till 2017.Klimax - Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - link
Not directly competing with "default competitors"? Don't think this is the case. Various Atoms and Xeons (Xeon-D) are already targeting a lot of that space.monstercameron - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
ian are you sure it i only a single slot? did you check underneath? http://www.bitkistl.com/2015/06/one-more-64-bit-bo...bill.rookard - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
That little Huskyboard is interesting. That could handle 3 SATA drives and work as a micro server. And since they make ECC SODIMMs and the A1100 should handle ECC RAM... You could fit several of those into a single 1U rack quite easily and have some pretty power-efficient performance.extide - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
Yeah, that HuskyBoard looks awesome. Apparently you can't buy one yet, or at least I looked around for a while for a place to buy one but couldn't find anywhere. I definitely want one to play with, unless its just ridiculously expensive.BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
I'd love to get a feel for the pricing on these. Seems like this chip could make a great little home built file server for the demanding enthusiast. Eight SATA ought to suffice for most. 10G ethernet is more than most home networks are capable of. Plenty of capacity for relatively high speed RAM makes for a nice sized ARC cache. Finally, the eight lightweight cores can be used for additional services (Domain, DLNA, etc) with no perceptible loss of performance from the file server proper.BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - link
@Ian: "... , but I wonder how many resources AMD is still putting into this project rather than their core business units."I thought the whole reason this was late was that they retasked these engineers to work Zen. The engineers needed to work on this presumably finished their work on Zen and returned to complete this (different set of expertise working Zen now). If they can keep an alternating cadence with these two lines, I don't see any reason they can't work both without getting in each other's way. Good way to keep your engineers gainfully employed between designs as well.
CiccioB - Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - link
Is the PP known? 14nm or 16nm?CiccioB - Thursday, November 26, 2015 - link
Oh, now that I can see images I see that they are 28nm parts... we are still a step back to be just a single step back from the most advanced PP... it is clear that this piece of silicon cannot compete with anything.BlueBlazer - Thursday, November 26, 2015 - link
These boards and systems are for 'development' purposes thus not ready for real world retail products yet. Video of those boards and systems here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k1EJaPRXsMtwotwotwo - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link
To imagine what the speed and price need to be to compete, compare with Xeon D--full-size (non-Atom) cores but cheap and lowish clocks, also with integrated 10gbE. The cheapest is 4C @ 2.4GHz, $200. By the time an A1100 or whatever ships Intel might've inched forward a bit more.http://www.anandtech.com/show/9185/intel-xeon-d-re... reviews it here
http://ark.intel.com/products/91202/Intel-Xeon-Pro... is the cheap one
At this point I imagine if ARM servers get much uptake it might be a giant existing maker like Qcom or Samsung deciding to throw some very-low-margin CPUs out there, or it's initiated on the purchaser side, i.e., development's effectively funded by one of the handful of companies with huge datacenters in hopes of saving on tasks that aren't CPU-bound today. But, on the flipside, those big purchasers are also good at optimizing use of the boxes they have and are well positioned to get good deals from Intel; they might not be that motivated to try and make ARM work.
Also imagine, somewhat more handwavily, that the fast ARM chips may still not have crossed over into the zone of "good enough" single-threaded performance for servers yet. Many apps are latency sensitive and built in a way that isn't totally light on the CPU. Like, you may want to run a Java or RubyPythonWhatever Web app on it and want it to feel reasonably snappy to the user. That needn't mean matching Intel's big cores for single-threaded speed, but it does mean finding the magical fast-enough line and getting across it.