Very interesting product, yet one caveat: your security system relies on Internet being up; If you go on vacation and switch off the mains, you won't have either current for the cam, nor for Internet.
in europe, several companies are trying to lure small business into setting up IP surveillance cameras, intrusion detection and transmission onto a smartphone (on demand only, in order not to burst the data traffic cap). IP camera like the Axis) have both intrusion detection software onboard and a hardware current loop switch (which could be used for intrusion detector).
the largest issue with video surveillance as i see it: (on my remote screen ;-)) is the lack of support for the megapixel cameras such as the Axis 207MW which have been around for a decent price for some time now.
I highly suspect an artificial restriction by manufacturer of NAS on entry-level systems
I have setup a surveillance DVR 24/7 with a Qnap 219 and 2 * Axis 207MW with few issues except that the QNAP F/W for that hardware does not allow the use of the camera in megapixel res: i am stuck with 15fps 640*480 AVI recording Yet, using curl, I was able to reach 10 fps at 1280*960 in JPG mode directly from the linux shell.
I am looking seriously into switching to synology because of their more honest way to handle additionnal camera through licenses
Sounds like they have a good start, but I wonder if this model will be sustainable in the future. If a user installed more than one of these, or if/when they produce HD models, the bandwidth usage could quickly get out of hand for tiered access plans. Perhaps for a more extensive home installation they could offer some type of a base station, either a USB device or some type of nettop, that could handle the recording functionality of local cameras. This device could integrate its own access point, so that setting up individual cameras would be as easy as plugging in over USB or ethernet for an initial setup, then putting them on location. They could also then make the mobile app location aware, so that video would only be streamed to their servers when the primary phone was away from home, or on request. Then all other video, such as when they are sleeping and not watching their phone, can be stored locally and not take up bandwidth.
The camera itself handles motion detection very differently. If set to motion detection the camera doesn't output data at all, until you have a motion event. Sounds like this is one of the features they disablled so they could charge you for continual recording.
One of the advantages of IP cameras in general, and one of the things that makes them a bit more expensive that Analog cameras, is that there is a fair amount of intelligence built into the cameras for functions like this.
Axis makes many decent IP cameras, this one is near the bottom of their line, as expected given the price point that people will want.
Since drop cam is not making the camera, I think they should concentrate on the "cloud" end of things, and setup, and let the consumer pick from a range of cameras.
And wake everyone who has a UPS in the entire block? Because figuring out which internet connection goes where isn't that easy. And I expect the same for electricity. And then you have to hope that there isn't a backup battery and backup wireless internet connection.... Probably not worth the hassle for a quick enter and grab....
But since it operates on wifi, and wifi is a very select range of frequencies usually 2.4 ghz or 5 ghz and sometimes 3.6 ghz, wouldn't it be possible to "overload" those bands in a short range with something that produces enough frequency noise.
Thus anything that isn't using cables won't be able to communicate. Doesn't matter if the ip cameras are storing there info locally or to the cloud, if you can't talk to the router than the effectively can't communicate.
As I recall, that camera also has an Ethernet port, and works off POE if Dropcam supports it.
Hook up the POE switch, router, and modem to a decent UPS and you are ready to go through basic power outages. If you are really concerned about someone cutting your Internet connection, Talk to one of the companies that provides video over 3G cell phone networks. Pretty pricey tho.
Would something like this even be valid evidence? Even if you had this camera running and recording an area where something was swiped, assuming the criminal took basic precautions such as covering their face and any other distinguishing marks all you would get from a VGA video is a basic idea of their size. Anything that is going to help bring a criminal to justice is going to come from more traditional investigation.
I would imagine the use of this is more as a nannycam, or for example if holes are being dug in your yard and you want to see if it is the neighbor's dog, or a situation like the author described.
From my own experience (was burglarized a few months ago in broad daylight), thieves are very bold. They will act like they belong there, and most people won't pay attention, especially if they look official. Unfortunately, all security can be bypassed--even a big dog can be dealt with if someone is determined enough. Your best hope is to make your property less appealing than everyone else's. I don't mean go all ghetto, but smash-and-grab people are pretty lazy, so they will pick the easiest targets first. If only they put their time into productive work, instead of making everyone else's insurance go up every year. >:(
The 45GB/mo of upstream should have been mentioned a bit earlier, probably best placed in the cloud section of the article. This product is not really a commercial device and will likely be installed in locations with consumer-grade data connections like cable and DSL (or even wireless like Clear). That type of usage will certainly be noticeable by the ISP. Since this is, as you say, the iPad of IP cameras the likelihood of consumer installs is fairly high and that usage generation will likely come back to bite the customer.
The cloud usage is really the big drawback, especially when 99.999% of 24/7 data will never ever by viewed. Why pipe it? My first thought was having a two-box solution. One is a camera, the second is small HDD that will store the data. That way the upstream only occurs when requested. It is also easier to haul a little box into court to be used as evidence than to wrangle the cloud. The two box solution could easily be battery backed-up and operate a direct ad-hoc wireless connection.
^^ Previous comment makes many of the relevant points. Constant streaming is ludicrous.
The hardware needs to do local motion detection, discriminate between simple lighting changes and real motion, and record only the video from several seconds before the motion detection, through the period of motion, and for several seconds thereafter. The recording should optionally be done to a local device, or to "The Cloud". The choice should be an economic trade-off between owning the local disk hardware, or renting the cloud.
In either case, real-time remote access needs to be made as easy to implement as their current product apparently is. And a small monthly fee for this service, separate from the above, is reasonable.
Twoboxer, The scenario you outline is only one of the possible applications. The solution suggested by you works for that particular scenario.
When you look at apps like nanny cams (where you keep a watch over the babysitter), constant streaming becomes a necessity, irrespective of motion detection. Agreed, this will not be 24 x 7, as the cam in that particular application can be switched off as soon as the user gets back home.
Another way to think of this is a webcam without a computer ( though one would definitely hesitate to pay $280 or so for this purpose alone :) )
As I mentioned above, the hardware does support local motion detection as you describe. It's a dropcam limitation, most like so they can sell you the various rate plans.
I've written several security applications that store video offsite that clients could access anytime through a web browser, one stored mpeg4 clips of motion detection back in 2005, then other one in 2008 stored jpeg images approx every second.
Neither company really went far with it. The primary technical concern, as somebody else pointed out already, is that most people get 1/2 to 1 Mpbs upload, enough for a couple of cameras max. And that's pinning their upload, in some cases 24x7, something the customer doesn't really want whether they know it or not. And it's bad with dsl/cable providers, worse with cellular or wireless providers. Makes for a nice sales discussion, you either gloss over it but include it in the fine print or scare them with the though of a huge internet bill. Upside is if your house burns down you still have recordings, and in the case of a break in they can't steal the recorder, downside is that your internet connection going down means you lose recordings and that happens all too often.
My issue personally has always been that the quality of locally stored video can be 30 fps 2MP+ content (these days), or even 30 fps 352x240 (2005), 640x480-2MP by 2008. If it's for security local content just looks way better. I don't think there's enough market for nanny cams to make it worthwhile. Most people don't want cameras in their house, especially ones you can view over the internet.
And... axis cameras are overpriced, they are nice, but overpriced. But maybe that's why they targeted iphone/apple :-), people who don't mind overpriced.
Besides the company's I worked with doing this, there were others, so it's not really novel or unique. In most cases I've steered companies to doing something similiar to what I'm doing now, providing local equipment (nvr/dvr) with flash/silverlight/mobile streaming options. Hardware costs are higher, but there's no monthly, it's expandable, flexible, has much better quality, longer recording history, easy on your internet connection, and can still be watched anywhere.
Downside being it does require someone to actually configure their router which I appreciate is what they are marketing this product as not needing. But is $25/month cheaper than just calling a professional to set up your router for 15-30 minutes?
It's not the $300 cost of the product that will make them money or not, rather this is like selling printers -the money is in the refills, or in this case the subscriptions.
"After this, a 7 day recording plan costs $8.95 per month, while the 30 day recording plan costs $24.95 a month."
At these prices (on par with my mobile phone bill) this is way too expensive for your average jo to be a 'nanny cam'. It is clearly aimed at home security imho. And for most people, a decent holiday is 2 weeks, making the 7 day plan pointless. $25/mth is a lot so the ability to record locally is highly desirable. That's a lot of money for home security based solely on a webcam.
Security camera footage is just one kind of data generated by households that one wants to make accessible on the web in a secure, authenticated manner while not having to tinker with routers, IPs and such. Real problem is that it's very hard to create any web-based application that is easy enough for a non-technical person to install, and yet secure enough to expose it on the web. That's why there are very few redistributable web applications for consumers and small businesses, while large corporations moved to web based apps long time ago.
An ability to build easily-redistributed web-based applications that can be installed inside LANs but still be securely exposed on the web without making non-techy people fiddle with routers, DNS, etc. is the idea being implemented by UltiDev HttpVPN (http://www.httpvpn.com/). It will be paired with Apple-like application store allowing creation and distribution of web applications for customers with no technical skills required to setup secure web hosting on premises, like consumers and small businesses. Home surveillance systems would be a perfect example of who would use HttpVPN.
Who in their right mind still thinks a MAC filter gives any form of security? It's spoofed in less than a second...madre mia :/ Anyone still using MAC filtering should turn in their network-man-card.
I'm NOT associated with this company before I'm accused of shameless plugging, but given the subject matter I'm surprised no-one has mentioned viaas.com (Video Intelligence As A Service). It looks to be similar to Dropcam.
Key differences appear to be - that Dropcam has audio support & iphone monitoring (big plus) - The Viaas cameras come with a micro SDHC slot which allows for the loss of internet connectivity and a can also provide a buffer allowing the user to impose bandwidth / traffic shaping over DSL etc. Other challenges with Viaas - no iphone support.. lack of UK presence (pricing).
Whilst some will doubtless argue, why do you need UK pricing, it's a cloud service after all. When you start shipping cameras from the US and need to guestimate import duty, VAT etc - it just becomes tedious. Likewise with fluctuating exchange rates - services billed only in dollars can rapidly start adding up.
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24 Comments
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papounet - Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - link
Very interesting product, yet one caveat:your security system relies on Internet being up; If you go on vacation and switch off the mains, you won't have either current for the cam, nor for Internet.
in europe, several companies are trying to lure small business into setting up IP surveillance cameras, intrusion detection and transmission onto a smartphone (on demand only, in order not to burst the data traffic cap). IP camera like the Axis) have both intrusion detection software onboard and a hardware current loop switch (which could be used for intrusion detector).
the largest issue with video surveillance as i see it: (on my remote screen ;-)) is the lack of support for the megapixel cameras such as the Axis 207MW which have been around for a decent price for some time now.
I highly suspect an artificial restriction by manufacturer of NAS on entry-level systems
I have setup a surveillance DVR 24/7 with a Qnap 219 and 2 * Axis 207MW with few issues except that the QNAP F/W for that hardware does not allow the use of the camera in megapixel res: i am stuck with 15fps 640*480 AVI recording
Yet, using curl, I was able to reach 10 fps at 1280*960 in JPG mode directly from the linux shell.
I am looking seriously into switching to synology because of their more honest way to handle additionnal camera through licenses
strikeback03 - Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - link
Sounds like they have a good start, but I wonder if this model will be sustainable in the future. If a user installed more than one of these, or if/when they produce HD models, the bandwidth usage could quickly get out of hand for tiered access plans. Perhaps for a more extensive home installation they could offer some type of a base station, either a USB device or some type of nettop, that could handle the recording functionality of local cameras. This device could integrate its own access point, so that setting up individual cameras would be as easy as plugging in over USB or ethernet for an initial setup, then putting them on location. They could also then make the mobile app location aware, so that video would only be streamed to their servers when the primary phone was away from home, or on request. Then all other video, such as when they are sleeping and not watching their phone, can be stored locally and not take up bandwidth.rcc - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - link
The camera itself handles motion detection very differently. If set to motion detection the camera doesn't output data at all, until you have a motion event. Sounds like this is one of the features they disablled so they could charge you for continual recording.One of the advantages of IP cameras in general, and one of the things that makes them a bit more expensive that Analog cameras, is that there is a fair amount of intelligence built into the cameras for functions like this.
Axis makes many decent IP cameras, this one is near the bottom of their line, as expected given the price point that people will want.
Since drop cam is not making the camera, I think they should concentrate on the "cloud" end of things, and setup, and let the consumer pick from a range of cameras.
jmke - Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - link
Cut power & internet connection; if possible from a street service panel accessible to anyone with a large cutter.Rick83 - Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - link
And wake everyone who has a UPS in the entire block?Because figuring out which internet connection goes where isn't that easy.
And I expect the same for electricity.
And then you have to hope that there isn't a backup battery and backup wireless internet connection....
Probably not worth the hassle for a quick enter and grab....
Roland00 - Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - link
But since it operates on wifi, and wifi is a very select range of frequencies usually 2.4 ghz or 5 ghz and sometimes 3.6 ghz, wouldn't it be possible to "overload" those bands in a short range with something that produces enough frequency noise.Thus anything that isn't using cables won't be able to communicate. Doesn't matter if the ip cameras are storing there info locally or to the cloud, if you can't talk to the router than the effectively can't communicate.
mados123 - Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - link
This was on one of those CSI episodes where they jammed the signal. WiFi jammers do exists like any other wireless signal blocking.http://www.chinavasion.com/product_info.php/pName/...
rcc - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - link
As I recall, that camera also has an Ethernet port, and works off POE if Dropcam supports it.Hook up the POE switch, router, and modem to a decent UPS and you are ready to go through basic power outages. If you are really concerned about someone cutting your Internet connection, Talk to one of the companies that provides video over 3G cell phone networks. Pretty pricey tho.
strikeback03 - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - link
Would something like this even be valid evidence? Even if you had this camera running and recording an area where something was swiped, assuming the criminal took basic precautions such as covering their face and any other distinguishing marks all you would get from a VGA video is a basic idea of their size. Anything that is going to help bring a criminal to justice is going to come from more traditional investigation.I would imagine the use of this is more as a nannycam, or for example if holes are being dug in your yard and you want to see if it is the neighbor's dog, or a situation like the author described.
rcc - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - link
Look at the bright side. Reviewing the footage (byteage?) would show the forensics guys where to look for more evidence.MonkeyPaw - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - link
From my own experience (was burglarized a few months ago in broad daylight), thieves are very bold. They will act like they belong there, and most people won't pay attention, especially if they look official. Unfortunately, all security can be bypassed--even a big dog can be dealt with if someone is determined enough. Your best hope is to make your property less appealing than everyone else's. I don't mean go all ghetto, but smash-and-grab people are pretty lazy, so they will pick the easiest targets first. If only they put their time into productive work, instead of making everyone else's insurance go up every year. >:(jquin6 - Saturday, January 12, 2013 - link
Criminals taking basic precautions. Did your nanny drop you on your head? Only 40% have some high school or less!mcnabney - Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - link
The 45GB/mo of upstream should have been mentioned a bit earlier, probably best placed in the cloud section of the article. This product is not really a commercial device and will likely be installed in locations with consumer-grade data connections like cable and DSL (or even wireless like Clear). That type of usage will certainly be noticeable by the ISP. Since this is, as you say, the iPad of IP cameras the likelihood of consumer installs is fairly high and that usage generation will likely come back to bite the customer.The cloud usage is really the big drawback, especially when 99.999% of 24/7 data will never ever by viewed. Why pipe it? My first thought was having a two-box solution. One is a camera, the second is small HDD that will store the data. That way the upstream only occurs when requested. It is also easier to haul a little box into court to be used as evidence than to wrangle the cloud. The two box solution could easily be battery backed-up and operate a direct ad-hoc wireless connection.
Twoboxer - Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - link
^^ Previous comment makes many of the relevant points. Constant streaming is ludicrous.The hardware needs to do local motion detection, discriminate between simple lighting changes and real motion, and record only the video from several seconds before the motion detection, through the period of motion, and for several seconds thereafter. The recording should optionally be done to a local device, or to "The Cloud". The choice should be an economic trade-off between owning the local disk hardware, or renting the cloud.
In either case, real-time remote access needs to be made as easy to implement as their current product apparently is. And a small monthly fee for this service, separate from the above, is reasonable.
ganeshts - Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - link
Twoboxer, The scenario you outline is only one of the possible applications. The solution suggested by you works for that particular scenario.When you look at apps like nanny cams (where you keep a watch over the babysitter), constant streaming becomes a necessity, irrespective of motion detection. Agreed, this will not be 24 x 7, as the cam in that particular application can be switched off as soon as the user gets back home.
Another way to think of this is a webcam without a computer ( though one would definitely hesitate to pay $280 or so for this purpose alone :) )
rcc - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - link
As I mentioned above, the hardware does support local motion detection as you describe. It's a dropcam limitation, most like so they can sell you the various rate plans.andrewbuchanan - Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - link
I've written several security applications that store video offsite that clients could access anytime through a web browser, one stored mpeg4 clips of motion detection back in 2005, then other one in 2008 stored jpeg images approx every second.Neither company really went far with it. The primary technical concern, as somebody else pointed out already, is that most people get 1/2 to 1 Mpbs upload, enough for a couple of cameras max. And that's pinning their upload, in some cases 24x7, something the customer doesn't really want whether they know it or not. And it's bad with dsl/cable providers, worse with cellular or wireless providers. Makes for a nice sales discussion, you either gloss over it but include it in the fine print or scare them with the though of a huge internet bill. Upside is if your house burns down you still have recordings, and in the case of a break in they can't steal the recorder, downside is that your internet connection going down means you lose recordings and that happens all too often.
My issue personally has always been that the quality of locally stored video can be 30 fps 2MP+ content (these days), or even 30 fps 352x240 (2005), 640x480-2MP by 2008. If it's for security local content just looks way better. I don't think there's enough market for nanny cams to make it worthwhile. Most people don't want cameras in their house, especially ones you can view over the internet.
And... axis cameras are overpriced, they are nice, but overpriced. But maybe that's why they targeted iphone/apple :-), people who don't mind overpriced.
Besides the company's I worked with doing this, there were others, so it's not really novel or unique. In most cases I've steered companies to doing something similiar to what I'm doing now, providing local equipment (nvr/dvr) with flash/silverlight/mobile streaming options. Hardware costs are higher, but there's no monthly, it's expandable, flexible, has much better quality, longer recording history, easy on your internet connection, and can still be watched anywhere.
Downside being it does require someone to actually configure their router which I appreciate is what they are marketing this product as not needing. But is $25/month cheaper than just calling a professional to set up your router for 15-30 minutes?
pkoi - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - link
So in other word that isWebcam + h264 compression + nic adapter.
for ~300$
In the Cloud ???, Sorry but you inevitably need local storage/server, preferably hidden, with an UPS.
ganeshts - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - link
The review also brings out the USP of the product as the ease of setup and use (even for the non-tech folks).Also, the target market is casual monitoring (like nanny cams / looking after pets etc.), not for those really paranoid about security, I guess :)
JNo - Monday, August 23, 2010 - link
It's not the $300 cost of the product that will make them money or not, rather this is like selling printers -the money is in the refills, or in this case the subscriptions."After this, a 7 day recording plan costs $8.95 per month, while the 30 day recording plan costs $24.95 a month."
At these prices (on par with my mobile phone bill) this is way too expensive for your average jo to be a 'nanny cam'. It is clearly aimed at home security imho. And for most people, a decent holiday is 2 weeks, making the 7 day plan pointless. $25/mth is a lot so the ability to record locally is highly desirable. That's a lot of money for home security based solely on a webcam.
vgribok - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - link
Security camera footage is just one kind of data generated by households that one wants to make accessible on the web in a secure, authenticated manner while not having to tinker with routers, IPs and such. Real problem is that it's very hard to create any web-based application that is easy enough for a non-technical person to install, and yet secure enough to expose it on the web. That's why there are very few redistributable web applications for consumers and small businesses, while large corporations moved to web based apps long time ago.An ability to build easily-redistributed web-based applications that can be installed inside LANs but still be securely exposed on the web without making non-techy people fiddle with routers, DNS, etc. is the idea being implemented by UltiDev HttpVPN (http://www.httpvpn.com/). It will be paired with Apple-like application store allowing creation and distribution of web applications for customers with no technical skills required to setup secure web hosting on premises, like consumers and small businesses. Home surveillance systems would be a perfect example of who would use HttpVPN.
ipvideomarket - Saturday, August 14, 2010 - link
Dropcam has dozens of competitors with more mature offerings delivering cloud native solutions.For instance, Axis has over 12 partners world-wide supporting Axis's Video Hosting Service.
Also, contrast to Viaas who is delivering a more sophisticated end to end solution.
Finally, a free 'cloud integration' service is offered by Lorex providing no-cost live video monitoring at half the up front cost of Dropcam.
Lonbjerg - Saturday, August 14, 2010 - link
Who in their right mind still thinks a MAC filter gives any form of security?It's spoofed in less than a second...madre mia :/
Anyone still using MAC filtering should turn in their network-man-card.
xtian78h - Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - link
I'm NOT associated with this company before I'm accused of shameless plugging, but given the subject matter I'm surprised no-one has mentioned viaas.com (Video Intelligence As A Service). It looks to be similar to Dropcam.Key differences appear to be - that Dropcam has audio support & iphone monitoring (big plus) - The Viaas cameras come with a micro SDHC slot which allows for the loss of internet connectivity and a can also provide a buffer allowing the user to impose bandwidth / traffic shaping over DSL etc. Other challenges with Viaas - no iphone support.. lack of UK presence (pricing).
Whilst some will doubtless argue, why do you need UK pricing, it's a cloud service after all. When you start shipping cameras from the US and need to guestimate import duty, VAT etc - it just becomes tedious. Likewise with fluctuating exchange rates - services billed only in dollars can rapidly start adding up.